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Obama, Rick Warren Promote Purpose-Driven Condom

by Scott Ott for ScrappleFace · 78 Comments

(2006-12-02) — After inviting Sen. Barack Obama to his California megachurch to talk about how to fight AIDS, best-selling author and Southern Baptist Pastor Rick Warren today announced he and the pro-choice senator from Illinois would team up to promote “the ultimate solution to the deadly sexually-transmitted disease.”

Starting in January, the senator and the pastor will appear in a series of TV commercials for 40 days and 40 nights touting the benefits of the new “Purpose-Driven Condom”.

“I got the idea from my brother, Barack,” said Mr. Warren. “He convinced me that we should be more realistic about our approach to teaching marital fidelity and sexual purity. The Purpose-Driven Condom is designed as a kind of first base on the diamond of morality.”

Each Purpose-Driven Condom is sealed in a package emblazoned with a Bible verse, and includes a brief devotional lesson from Pastor Warren “encouraging the fornicating person to consider that he was created for greater things than fleeting sexual relationships.”

Sen. Obama will introduce a bill to fund global distribution of billions of the “spiritual prophylactics.” The bill would also increase funding to Planned Parenthood to provide “abortions of grace” to those who neglect to employ the birth control measure.

The new Democrat majority in Congress will pass the measure, Sen. Obama said, “to demonstrate that Democrats are religious too.”

“Just because church and state are separated,” he said, “doesn’t mean that they can’t have an intimate, meaningful relationship.”

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Tags: Politics · Theology · U.S. News

78 responses so far ↓

  • 1 CalGirl // Dec 2, 2006 at 4:11 pm

    Oooof. To close to the truth here.


  • 2 Bill's Bites // Dec 2, 2006 at 4:25 pm

    Obama, Rick Warren Promote Purpose-Driven Condom…

    … On a slightly more serious note, this Obama kid’s startin’ to worry me and you can expect to see me doing everything I can to keep him from being the ‘08 Dhimmicrat nominee, effective today….

  • 3 Fred Sinclair // Dec 2, 2006 at 4:36 pm

    Great! About as great an idea as trying to light a campfire in a force 5 hurricane with a single paper match.

    Talk in the news (NBC) of the new spray on condom (only 5 seconds for a perfect fit) - perhaps the message can be printed on the spray can, with a detachable 10% off coupon towards a new Gideon Bible?

    Heirborn Ranger

  • 4 Tinman // Dec 2, 2006 at 4:36 pm

    Do you think holy condoms are a good idea?

  • 5 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 2, 2006 at 4:47 pm

    What with all the talk of Barack Hussein Obama as our next president, and the talk of his being nothing more than a novice, the thought occurred to me that Hillary Rodham Clinton only has a couple of years more experience.

    Imagine if these two rank amateurs were to become President and Vice President.

    I’m picturing them cowering, whimpering and clutching each other in some corner in abject terror at the first sign of trouble.

  • 6 Laughing@You // Dec 2, 2006 at 5:02 pm

    Yeah Knitwits,

    Too bad Dumbyah can’t run again! I guess we can’t hope to find another one like him. Say, what’s Dan Quayle doing now?

  • 7 RedPepper // Dec 2, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    JL3 #5: No no, not Hilary! John Edwards (aka the Breck girl) instead!

    Saddleback Mountain !

    (Rick Warren can give them his blessing …)

  • 8 RedPepper // Dec 2, 2006 at 5:17 pm

    Maggie: Please check my reply 2 U on previous thread …

  • 9 Laughing@You // Dec 2, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    Listen Braintrust,

    Why don’t you guyz start a movement among Republicans to repeal the Twenty-second Amendment? If you do, I’ll start one among the Democrats.

    Just think, you could have as many terms of Dumbyah as you can stand, or until America is lost, whichever comes first.

    And, of course, I think I can find a guy with some experience to run for the Democrats.

    But then, there’s just no way Bill Clinton could beat George W. Bush; is there?

  • 10 camojack // Dec 2, 2006 at 6:15 pm

    “Just because church and state are separated,” he said, “doesn’t mean that they can’t have an intimate, meaningful relationship.”

    Don’t forget the tax advantages…

  • 11 Digito Society » Blog Archive » On the Cultural Purpose of Products and Brands // Dec 2, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    [...] UPDATE: Scrappleface proposes the Purpose-Driven Condom. Hmm … this purpose based paradigm sure spreads in unexpected directions. [...]

  • 12 mindknumbed kid // Dec 2, 2006 at 6:33 pm

    Great one Scott !! You definitely have some insight when it comes to liberals whether it be political, social, or religious. Better copywrite, patent, etc. they’ll be marketing them next week otherwise…

  • 13 Scott Ott // Dec 2, 2006 at 6:50 pm

    Obama, Rick Warren Promote Purpose-Driven Condom…

    by Scott Ott(2006-12-02) — After inviting Sen. Barack Obama to his California megachurch to talk about how to fight AIDS, best-selling author and Southern Baptist Pastor Rick Warren today announced he and the pro-choice senator from Illinois would……

  • 14 mig // Dec 2, 2006 at 7:47 pm

    Is condom purity guaranteed or is it subjected to human error?

  • 15 Darthmeister // Dec 2, 2006 at 8:00 pm

    Guess whose fault it is when 40,000 more Americans got AIDS last year? It’s the government’s fault!

    Well, that’s what one AIDS “expert” claimed. Maybe some of these liberal congregations can start passing collection plates for condoms to ease their corporate guilt over other people freely and recklessly pursuing a narcissistic life of unfettered sex and drugs.

    In all honesty I only have enough compassion left for hemophiliacs, children born to AIDS mothers and spouses of those who promiscuously pursue extramarital sex or drugs.

  • 16 gafisher // Dec 2, 2006 at 8:36 pm

    “Abortions of Grace” aptly describes this pair.

  • 17 RedPepper // Dec 2, 2006 at 8:56 pm

    Well, hello there, mindknumbedkid! I don’t recall seeing you post here recently, but I certainly recognize your nickname. Good to see you here!

  • 18 mindknumbed kid // Dec 2, 2006 at 9:11 pm

    I am still lurking, but time is so sparse around here these days I am lucky to just check my email. Scott “reeled me in” with this one. I just had to acknowledge his outstanding work. And I happened to have some free time this afternoon. Wish I could hang out a lot more.

    Camo - I saved your response from 10/13 (my 45th birthday) to respond…….I’ll get there !!

  • 19 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 2, 2006 at 9:13 pm

    Some things fall into the ludicrous category quite easily, like the UN sending Israel a bill for damages on behalf of Lebanon.

  • 20 Maggie // Dec 2, 2006 at 9:27 pm

    RedPepper……check your Inbox.

  • 21 Ms RightWing, Ink // Dec 2, 2006 at 9:45 pm

    Sure is a lot of back door mail givin’ goin’ on round here. You two better stop it.

    Okay, I can think of a few other pastoral books that could use a good kick in the book binding. Jimmy Swaggart maybe.

  • 22 mindknumbed kid // Dec 2, 2006 at 11:32 pm

    Amazing - less than 13K away from 1 billion passerbys at scrappleface !!

  • 23 RedPepper // Dec 2, 2006 at 11:32 pm

    Maggie … I’ve sent you a reply.

    And on that note, I believe I’ll call it a night. See y’all 2morrow …

  • 24 Possumtrot // Dec 2, 2006 at 11:40 pm

    What was that thing that just jumped up and took my picture?

    You need to cool it on the adware and spyware, Great Scott. I’m a loyal reader, and don’t need homepage hijackers.

    I occasionally deploy purpose-driven condoms in the privacy of the Possum Den. Do we really want to go there? [It is to LMAO].

    More laughs can be had here: United Possums International

    …Straight Southern Baptist on Scorpion Hill…

  • 25 antodav // Dec 2, 2006 at 11:43 pm

    Glad to see that no one is feeding the trolls…

    I must admit, I’m tempted to do so myself, but I shall refrain, in the hopes of ameliorating the problem rather than exacerbating it.

  • 26 camojack // Dec 3, 2006 at 1:15 am

    Camo - I saved your response from 10/13 (my 45th birthday) to respond…….I’ll get there !!
    Comment by mindknumbed kid — December 2, 2006 @ 9:11 pm

    45, huh? I remember it well…

  • 27 MargeinMI // Dec 3, 2006 at 5:29 am

    This is Classic Ott!

    The Bible verse on the package should work about as good as the warning on cigarettes. ‘Abortions of Grace’, an absolute pearl, Scott.

    Morning all.

  • 28 Godfrey // Dec 3, 2006 at 5:30 am

    Hank re: previous thread [the ACLU's] continued infringement upon the rights of people of faith to freely practice their religion in the public institutions and in the public arena…

    It seems like you’re talking about two different things here: the unequivocal right to practice religion as one sees fit is very different from the right of a group to institutionalize religious displays in the public sphere. The first instance is something uniquely American while the second smacks of the Taliban or the House of Saud.

    What better way to honor the original intent of the American founders with respect to the founding religion of this country?

    Personally I think the best way to honor the intent of the founders is through a rigorous application of the First Amendment via a complete separation of church and state. This country was quite explicitly not founded on any particular religion, which is why the Constitution mentions religion only in order to prohibit the government from adopting a stance on it (i.e. Congress shall pass no law…).

    Let America be America with its traditions and religious character on full display.

    I agree with you completely so long as you’re talking about the individual’s display of “religious character” and not some ill-conceived attempt to create a uniform religious standard. The Brits tried this through their Church of England and subsequently lost thirteen of their best colonies. It’s no wonder our Founders were so poignantly aware of the dangers of institutionalized religion.

    Freedom of religion for everyone is an obvious component of our founding fathers’ intentions: institutional favoritism of one particular religious sect is, on the other hand, completely antithetical to everything in which they believed. Luckily they took the trouble to enshrine this fact in the Constitution.

    I mean, what’s with trying to take the Christ child out of Christmas, for goodness sake?

    Not sure if you’re referring to a specific instance, but I have no problem with private parties displaying Christ or Christmas scenes or anything of the sort. Government has no business opining upon, supporting, prohibiting or in any way regulating religion. Matters of religion are a private matter and a fundamental right guaranteed by the First Amendment.

    As for the ACLU, they are looking a lot like Jesse Jackson these days. Like him, they have shed light on some important issues in the past and they have fought some worthy battles, but more and more they appear to be fighting merely to maintain their own sense of relevance. Like Jackson, the organization has become a sad caricature of its former usefulness.

    The ACLU’s credibility at this point is roughly on par with that of Al Gore, the Global Climate Nanny (formerly Father of the Internets).

  • 29 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 3, 2006 at 7:43 am

    It must really horrify and disgust anti-Christians that Christmas is a national holiday. I suppose they spend the entire loathsome day with clammy skin, hovering over a commode, waiting in utter anguish for it to be over. I can’t imagine how they must despise the paycheck they receive for not working that day.

  • 30 gafisher // Dec 3, 2006 at 7:43 am

    I’m trying to think of any “former usefulness” attributable to the Reverend Jackson, Godfrey, and, even more than the UN, it all seems to fall into the Leninesque “Useful Idiot” category, which is no less current than it is “former.”

  • 31 Beerme // Dec 3, 2006 at 8:48 am

    I rarely criticize the Ottster, but here goes:
    I can only think of one valid criticism of Warren’s actions here, and that is the fact that he is legitimizing Obama. Obama is working hard to make himself appear to be a centrist who is worthy of your vote as a presidential candidate. One example is his joining with Coburn on the earmark sunshine bill. This is another. He’s reaching across the aisle like the high-minded statesman that he wants you to think he is. Warren gives this credence. Nothing wrong with that if it is true, but I doubt it very much.

    As for Warren abandoning his principles to fight the AIDs epidemic, I don’t think he has. He steadfastly maintains that abstinence is what he is after. I haven’t heard any talk of condoms coming from his mouth, not that it would bother me all that much but I’d understand the criticism then. Maybe I missed it???

  • 32 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 3, 2006 at 9:12 am

    Rick Warren is nobody to me. He’s just another capitalist looking to enhance his fortunes by holding hands with whoever will further that goal-in this case, Barack Hussein Obama, a “token” with no credentials whatsoever.

    As for Warren’s campaign against AIDS, I liken it to the cigarette manufacturers and their anti-smoking promotions-all show, with the primary motive of enhancing profits.

    Any “pastor” who will align himself with (and lend credence to) a promoter of infanticide is highly suspect, in my opinion.

  • 33 Anonymous // Dec 3, 2006 at 11:03 am

    #29. LOL, but true!
    Great work Scott, Sir!
    -Libby Gone

  • 34 Anonymous // Dec 3, 2006 at 11:39 am

    I think those are designed for something beyond “1st base ” on the diamond of morality.

  • 35 Ms RightWing, Ink // Dec 3, 2006 at 11:48 am

    Rick Warren, though publishing a best seller, is what many consider the peddler of the new Christianity. He wrote his book on the same basis of what a business what do before coming before the board.

    He took in account of where the money was, who has it and how best to utilize it. The new Christianity likes to be cautious where it steps in fear of saying the “wrong” words which may offend an audience member.

    I say “audience” since mega churches treat their parishioners like an audience with thick plush theater seats, lots of music and a dash of Gospel to make you think a little.

    So is this wrong or right. Many articles have been thrown out for public consumption and a believer has to decide for oneself whether or not this is their way of worship.

    I myself have attended numerous mega-churches, from The Church on The Way to several here in the Midwest. Did I feel the sense of community or Koinonia. Not really. I do best in a small to medium size church.

    Over the years I have seen in many of the churches a drifting crowd, going hither and yon looking for the best place not to be offended by down-to-earth Christianity. Then, too I have seen smaller churches rip people apart who are struggling in their faith, so that causes a lot of Christians to become Teflon Believers in mega churches where they get their Sunday morning munchies and go home, never knowing nor desiring to know those who sit in comfort about them.

    RicK Warren caters to those who love to crunch numbers and seek corporate Christianity, but for some, well, that is good. I would rather have that than an ACLU temple next door.

    So concludes my 2 cent Sunday sermon.

  • 36 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 12:38 pm

    Re #28 Godfrey: The “complete separation of church and state” memé would have a bit more credibility if it was pursued with the same vigor when it comes to non-Christian religious displays, etc. ; for (one) instance , there are courses about Islam being taught in schools right now that would cause the ACLU-types to go into collective cardiac arrest if they were about “Christianianity” ! I’ll see if I can dig up a link or two to illustrate …

  • 37 GnuCarSmell // Dec 3, 2006 at 12:49 pm

    For his next gig, maybe Rick Warren will team up with Bill Clinton for the “Fidelity-Driven Marriage” tour. Surely Warren is well-intentioned, but he may a bit tone-deaf. He should consider that association with a politician who supports a controversial position (abortion) gives the appearance of a soft endorsement of that politician’s positions.

    Note that I said “appearance.” To know the ultimate truth about such weighty matters, we would have to ask the Iraq Study Group for an opinion.

  • 38 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 1:31 pm


    Here is the mother of a seventh-grader in Scottsdale, Arizona on some “academic” activities in her child’s school, from about two years ago. A snippet:

    “The school hosted two professional Muslim speakers … to speak to all 7th grade social studies classes. This took one whole day. The Muslim speakers brought prayer rugs and taught the children to pray the Muslim way. I also believe that there were recitations from the Koran … “ .

    How do you suppose the ACLU would have reacted to a similar Christian-oriented event ? Just wondering …

  • 39 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    Godfrey: One more (more recent) story:

    ‘Five Pillars of Islam’ taught in public school .

    Still another assignment was to learn the “five pillars” of Islam, study Ramadan and listen to guest speakers including an American Muslim who arrived dressed in her religious costume to talk to the kids about her Quran.

  • 40 jmunk1 // Dec 3, 2006 at 1:53 pm

    I’ve been a member of Saddleback from when we jammed into the local high school to when we met under a tent to the present day. I now attend Calvary Chapel however I frequently still visit Saddleback and Pastor Rick’s message still remains unchanged.

    This blog horribly distorts what is going on at Saddleback and the responses show the same elitism exhibited by the pharisees of Christ’s time.

    I think people should try to get a bit more informed before they attack a leader who by the grace of God has been able to reach more for Jesus than anyone could have ever imagined.

    “He who answers before listening-that is his folly and his shame.” Prov. 18:13 (NIV)

    “Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions.” Prov. 18:2 (NLT)

  • 41 Darthmeister // Dec 3, 2006 at 2:44 pm

    antodav … exacerbate?

    Liberal activists seem to exacerbate all the time in light of their propensity for half-truths. And more than a few masticate - condoms or no condoms.

    The first to plea his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him. Proverbs 18:17

    Yeah, instead of confronting the woman at the well [John 4:7-42] with His Lordship which has the power to change lives, Jesus should have been less judgmental and simply given her some lambskin to protect her from unwanted pregnancy and STDs and sent her back to her “five” husbands.

    But really now, what WWJD? Certainly not what Pastor Rick Warren has done by compromising his ministry by bringing the brambles of the world into the inner sanctum. What’s next, bringing in the “Roman Catholic” Nancy Pelosi to speak about how to have safe and God-blessed abortions? Or maybe the good Pastor will start preaching a Sunday series about how all Christians should use the missionary position, eh? May as well, that door into privacy has already been busted open at his church.

    Acting as a minister of God, Rick Warren has the overwhelming obligation to first bring people to Christ instead of bringing people to condoms. There are plenty of governmental and private agencies to do this “work” without troubling the Church of the Living God with it.

    This borders on resurrecting the religion of Asherah/Baal - the Asherah of the Old Testament being a phallic-symbol cult. Why must the Church become a “friend” of the world system?

    When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures. You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. James 4:3-4

    But…but…but…it’s not pleasure for me but protection for others. Whatever, you’re enabling people to continue an often debauched lifestyle without confronting them with the truth THEY NEED TO REPENT AND QUIT THEIR DESTRUCTIVE LIFESTYLE. If this is something an individual Christian feels compelled to do as a personal ministry, fine, but don’t put worldly Senators or politicos in the pulpit PREACHING ABOUT CONDOMS! Sheesh.
    A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.

  • 42 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 2:49 pm


    Those of you who wish to become better-informed should consider tuning in Robert Spencer : “Book TV” on C-SPAN2 at 3:30 EDT .

    FYI .

  • 43 Godfrey // Dec 3, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    JL3: Well, I’m not an “anti-Christian” so doubt that you’re referring to me…but for the record I spend Christmas pulling crazy secular shenanigans like giving (and opening) gifts and hanging out with my family. :-)

    gafisher: I think Jackson was somewhat “useful” up to about the time Martin Luther King was killed. I think the civil rights movement was once a very good thing that has, as I said, become a wretched (and, to blacks, harmful) caricature of itself. But in the early days it was a brave and worthy cause, and in fairness I think the “Reverend” Jackson deserves some credit for having been a part of it.

    RedPepper: I don’t think religion should be “ignored” per se…I just think the government should have nothing to do with either condoning or discouraging religion.

    For instance I think compulsory praying in (public) schools is wrong, but I also think it is a complete violation of a child’s First Amendment rights to forbid a child to pray any time he wants to. I don’t remember the exact details but I know the latter instance has occurred and I find it utterly absurd. I found it equally absurd when, a few years ago, a school prevented a valedictorian from invoking God in his commencement speech. If any individual wants to speak about religion in any setting (up to and including the POTUS) it is that person’s right…so long as that person is speaking as an individual.

    Teaching Christianity, Islam or Buddhism as a matter of history, literature or cultural anthropology is something without which our children’s education would not be complete. But to have a religious proponent (i.e. a Muslim speaker) evangelize schoolchildren is a complete breech of the First Amendment. To have the kids compelled to engage in mock religious rituals is a blatant contravention of the First Amendment.

    Regarding post #39; such a thing would probably be okay if it was a panel of people from all the major religions speaking and answering questions. It is possible to educate kids on a subject without condoning it.

    Your last point in #38 is quite valid, of course: if this had been a Christian speaker and if the kids had been asked to “pretend” to, say, take communion, the ACLU would have popped a vein. That’s my main problem with the organization: not that they defend what is “unpopular” but that they do so with such obvious inconsistency.

  • 44 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 3, 2006 at 3:18 pm

    RE: #40~~

    I stand by my post #32.

    Call me a Pharisee, if you wish, as I am immune to argumentum ad hominem; however, methinks thou dost protest too much.

    Show me where I’m wrong.

  • 45 Godfrey // Dec 3, 2006 at 3:26 pm

    RedPepper: I’ve not read Spencer but I think all such work is important. Anyone considering the huge “tolerance gap” between Christianity and Islam should realize that the main attitudinal difference between the two religions is that beginning with the Renaissance (and with the widespread education wrought by the advent of the printing press) Christianity began to allow Biblical criticism while Islam has not.

    Most people don’t realize that there is no such thing as “Koranic criticism” in the Islamic world. It simply doesn’t exist as a substantial discipline.

    In a very concrete, non-metaphorical way Muslims’ religious sensibilities are stuck in the middle ages.

  • 46 da Bunny // Dec 3, 2006 at 6:27 pm

    “Religious democrats,” whose “god” is big socialist government. Who is Warren going to join forces with next, Hillary Clinton, for the “Tax-Payer-Driven Health Care System?” Or, maybe he can invite Ted Kennedy to come and speak at Saddleback’s AA meetings… renaming the meetings “Drunk-Driven Recovery.”

    Hey, Rick…obviously not living the “principle-driven life,” there, eh?

  • 47 mindknumbed kid // Dec 3, 2006 at 7:15 pm

    Hard to be popular when you preach repentance, faith in the Savior, holiness, ect.
    This is America 2006, and the cool, enlightened crowd have politely told God to shut the door behind him on his way out.The not so cool or enlightened have deliberatly made an obscene hand gesture to him. The longer we go down through time the less and less there are remnents of God fearing Americans that are the only hope that keeps a nation on course. Doesn’t look too promising for our nation these days. Nevertheless, we need to keep our salt salty and our light bright. Compromising is easy, but once a person goes that route you just as well throw their salt out, becoming a liberal generally doesn’t happen over night, you take a slight turn to the left and just keep going without making any correction. Next thing you know you can’t even recognize where you came from, once you get there you are lost. Can’t even imagine how far off course this country has gotten. Preachers that don’t preach God’s message are of no help keeping our country on course, I don’t mean to sound defeated or hopeless. But we are in trouble here, and there is not a political fix outside of America taking a hard right and running to righteousness as fast as it can get there.

  • 48 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 7:48 pm

    Mmmm. I could swear I’m seeing little wisps of smoke wafting up from the Site Meter …

    Godfrey, I think you and I are in substantial agreement on how government ought to treat religion … though we might disagree on just how scrupulously the very appearance of evil should be avoided. I believe we often go to ridiculous extremes in this area ; it puts me in mind of the strict Jewish dietary customs, and the separate sets of plates for meat-based versus dairy-based meals !

    Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother’s milk .

    OK, OK, fine … but aren’t you pushing it a bit ?

  • 49 Darthmeister // Dec 3, 2006 at 8:00 pm

    I can’t wait for the big push when pro-abortion liberal socialists join forces with cosmopolitan, mega-church “progressive Christians” to hand out clean needles to junkies. They can call this ministry, “Needles from Jesus”.

    Hallelujah! Can I get an amen!

  • 50 RedPepper // Dec 3, 2006 at 8:08 pm

    JL3 #s 32,44: It’s just so wrong to be judgemental.

    Why do you care if Rick Warren and Borat Alabama have a thing for each other ?


  • 51 conserve-a-tips // Dec 3, 2006 at 8:21 pm

    Re: #40 I warn you that this is long, but it is my heart and I can’t be quiet:

    The scripture admonishes us to not to add to it or take away from it. It tells us to “put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.” (Eph. 6:11) Part of that armor is God’s Word and it is not to be misused for any reason.

    It is because of that admonishment that I have put aside Mr. Warren as just another preacher who is a control addict thinking that he knows better then God how to do God’s work. God doesn’t need Rick Warren telling people how to find a purpose. God needs Rick Warren teaching the whole scripture and presenting the unadulterated truth that we are sinners who need God in the worst way and that once we accept Christ, then we must be ever mindful “But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people…For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person - such a man is an idolater - has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.” (Eph 5:3-7)

    We went through the entire 40 Days of Purpose. We read part of the Purpose Driven Church and were so sickened by the subversion of the scriptures that we had to back away. In the PDL book, just as an example, Warren devotes an enormous amount of space about God being our “friend” just as God supposedly referred to Job as his “friend” in the book of Job. Did anybody bother to look that up in anything but the Message? Well, I challenge anyone to look up the word that is used in the book of Job, and it is most often used referring to “servant”. God referred to Job as his “servant”. God the Father is not on our level as a friend. Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, is on the same level as man in that sense, but God the Father calls for submission, obedience, worship and praise, none of what would be termed “friendship.” That is the same mistake that parents make when they try to be friends with their children. The result is that respect goes out the window, obedience goes out the door, and honor and love turn into “gimme, gimme.” We saw that happen at our church as a result of PDL. The respect and awe and fear of the Lord went out the door. God, the three-in-one meets us at three different levels and He makes it clear that God the Father, the omniscient, omnipresent - the great ‘I AM’ is not to be put on the same plane as mortal man as a mere “friend.” That is a dangerous lie to offer to new Christians or nonbelievers.

    And then, my suspicions were encouraged when I saw the video of Mr. Warren in Syria and he proved himself to either be a liar or just pitifully trained in the scripture. He said, and I quote, “It [Syria] is a lot more peaceful, honestly, then a lot of other places because Christians were here first. In fact, you know, Saul of Tarsus, Saul was a Syrian and St. Paul on the road to Damascus had his conversion experience and so Christians have been here the longest and so they get along with the Muslims and the Muslims get along with them.”

    OK, let’s look at that. First, Saul was a Jewish Roman citizen of Tarsus a town in Cilicia in southern Turkey, with the name Saul, “an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin”. Cilicia extended along the Aegean coast east from Pamphylia, to Mount Amanus (Giaour Dagh), which separated it from Syria. So first mistatement - Saul was not a Syrian.

    Second, Saul was converted on his way to Damascus to kill Christians. He was not a Christian - he was a Jew and a prominent one at that. He came one on one with Christ and was struck blind and taken to Damascus. So Paul wasn’t even a Chistian at the time. But the Christians were there first?? Christians weren’t Christians until after Christ’s crucifixion. The Jews and others were there first. Christianity is not a race!!! It is a faith. Jews are a race and Syrians today want them dead - off the face of the earth. So how does Warren explain away that actually the Syrians are antisemites to the people who were truly one of the races there first? And also, if you want to get technical, in Acts chapter 8, referring to Christian persecution, it says, “On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.” There is nothing to boast about Syria. Christians went everywhere. According to Warren’s flawed thinking, the whole Middle East should be this wonderful, moderate, “let’s all get along” mentality because Christians were there first.

    And finally the statement again, Christians were here the longest. Would you like some Biblical history that you are obviously not getting? Damascus was a city that can be found on any old testament map in the land of Aram. That was Syria before Syria became Syria. If you read about the sons of Noah in the Old Testament, you will find that one of them was named Shem. His descendents were called “Shemites” which later became “Semites”. (heard that word before?) Shem had a son named Aram. It was in Aram’s time that God scattered the people because of the tower at Babel. Aram settled in the land and it was called for the patriarch. So I would sure like to know where the Christians fit into being there the longest.

    And finally, on the issue of Barak Obama’s appearance, I had my gut feelings justified when a spokesman for Saddleback stated, “However, the HIV/AIDS pandemic cannot be fought by Evangelicals alone.” Oh my. Has everyone forgotten God here? “All things can be done through Christ who stengthens.” Has everyone forgotten that God is in control and we are supposed to be Godly people, aligning with Godly people, not to FIGHT AIDS, but to spread the gospel and a new way of living that will destroy the disease instead of just the symptoms? You people have aligned yourselves with people who only want to give a pill or a condom or a drug to stop the symptoms or the spread of the disease and who don’t care a whit about the real reason that the disease is spreading - because people are living exactly how they want to live - without God. What profiteth a man if he gain the whole world [including his health] and lose his soul?” Let me remind you of Christ’s word regarding meeting these physical needs: “…A woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. Some of those present were saying indignantly [the disciples] to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly. Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? Shas done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time. But you will not always have me. She did what she could…I tell you the truth, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she ahs done will also be told in memory of her.” MK 14 3-9

    It breaks my heart to see people, who have said that they accept the mightiness of God, decide that they have to compromise honoring His Holiness in order to make things happen in their way and in their timeframe. It breaks my heart to see people like you swallow the “just close enough to look like truth” because there is no teaching of the meat and sinew of the scripture.

    Christ called us to really tough living. We, as the church, must take up that order and must go out to the world, preaching His gospel and teaching His forgiveness while ministering to the physical needs of those to whom we take the message. We don’t need to throw in with anyone who compromises the message or the methods or the morals in order for God to do His work. Don’t ever forget that He is bigger then the Warrens or the Obamas or you or me. He doesn’t need our little gimmicks or our Peter Drucker style business models. He just needs us, living holy lives and being totally obedient to His word and His calling. He will bring the people to us in everything we do, without us doing a thing but praying and staying alert. We had better be prepared to be bold with His Word when those people do come into our lives, because this isn’t about keeping them happy and healthy - it is about saving their eternal lives.

    We need to be praying for this nation, for our leaders, for our ministers and for His people across the earth, because deception is running rampant.

  • 52 R.A.M. // Dec 3, 2006 at 8:49 pm

    I find it strange that libs scream, “Separation of church and state”, anytime a Republican has a pastor or evangelist stand with them on any issue, or if they say anything against a Dimocrat, yet NOW ALL Dim libs, want to be seen with Christians in public, so it LOOKS like they are Christian too!

    God talked about these kind of people in HIS Book.

    Remember “Bubba” with his Bible?

    That was about as sickening as Billy Graham giving Hillary his blessing on the same stage!

    I would be careful if I were Rick Warren, as one indescretion can cancel out a LIFETIME of good.

    I do not think this issue is that for Warren, but there is something very disturbing about Obama to me, and it is NOT just the fact that MOST Dimocrats are ready to elect someone to the highest office in the land, when we know practically NOTHING about him.

    Sure Obama may be a smooth talker but so are some gangster rappers and I don’t want them being President either!

  • 53 JamesonLewis3rd // Dec 3, 2006 at 9:25 pm

    RE: #51~~

    Thank you so very much for your lucid comment. Excellent.

  • 54 bystander // Dec 3, 2006 at 9:38 pm

    “yet NOW ALL Dim libs, want to be seen with Christians in public, so it LOOKS like they are Christian too!”

    Are you kidding me or what ? I want nothing to do with these bible thumping phonies! They are just like the pols who mostly come from the lower end of the gene pool !

    Why does everyone seem to think it is their mission in life to shove their favored version of religious beliefs down everyone else’s throats ?

  • 55 onlineanalyst // Dec 3, 2006 at 9:49 pm

    Doug Giles summed up Obama Yo Mama yesterday with a great listing (worth saving) of the man’s “principles”. The media are spinning this inexperienced legislator who gained his position by default in the first place as the hope of America. Meanwhile one pundit called Obama “Bill Clinton with a tan”. Is it possible to have two men from Hope?

  • 56 R.A.M. // Dec 3, 2006 at 10:03 pm

    bystander: I happened to be talking about lib POLITICANS.

    They, (like you), could care less about being Christian, they just want to fool Christians into thinking that they are Christians themselves.

    No one is forcing anything down your throat, but we have the same freedom of speech that libs have.

    I do realize that liberals are the ones who want to silence opinions that they do not agree with though.

    If we complain about things we don’t like like porn on TV, you say, “Change the channel”, or porn on the internet, libs say, “Not if it keeps adults from getting it!”

    So much for Nancy Pelosi and “Protecting the children”. :lol:

    Funny, ANYONE who has been on this site for more than a day or too, knows MOST here believe in Jesus, God, and the Bible, yet people still come here and call us “Bible thumpers”, and say they are having it “shoved down their throats”.

    That’s about as dumb as going to a strip bar and complaining about people taking off their clothes.

    “Stuck on stupid” seems to fit really well here! :lol:

  • 57 onlineanalyst // Dec 3, 2006 at 10:06 pm

    Read what Doug Giles reveals about Obama Yo Mama:

  • 58 Darthmeister // Dec 3, 2006 at 10:10 pm

    Why does everyone seem to think it is their mission in life to shove their favored version of religious beliefs down everyone else’s throats ?

    Like your beliefs don’t have some kind of religious taint to it? And you’ve tried your best to cram them down our throats, bystander.

    Scrapplers, we might actually be witnessing the turning of a wing of mainstream Christendom down the road toward The Great Harlot who will ride the Beast.. Oh, to be sure, this spiritual harlot will engage in works adorned with the appearance of “good” in hopes of tempting even the people of God to follow the wisdom of the world. For even Satan himself can appear as an angel of light.(II Cor. 11:14).

    Here’s the problem that I see evolving with the Democratic Party’s attempt to get “progressive Christians” into the same bed with them. You will see the liberal churches and their congregations becoming more like liberal socialist Democrats than you will liberal socialists “seeing the light” and becoming actual Christians. This is not to say that Christians should isolate ourselves from the world so they won’t get “tainted”, but rather we shouldn’t start thinking like the world. And handing out condoms and needles in the name of Jesus is thinking like the world. And far too often I’ve seen where nominal cosmopolitan Christians want so much to be liked by the world instead of being salt to the world.

    In the Republican Party (and it does have its problems that’s why I’m an independent), principled Evangelical conservatives pretty much tell the Beltway Republicans and RINOs: If you guys want to be more like Democrat Lite and whore yourself to all manner of political, social and moral abominations in hopes of becoming permanent fixtures in Congress at our expense, you can do it without us and this country can go to hell in a handbasket. We’ll survive because we fear no evil. We won’t compromise our traditions, conservative, Christian values just to keep a political party in power whether its Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, etc.

    As we’ve mentioned before, this last election the electorate rejected Republicanism, not conservatism, so good moral sense still exists among a majority of Americans … for now.

    But don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Mr. Warren or his megachurch has turned down that road, but it certainly looks like there’s a good possibility of such a thing happening further down the reaod given that there seems to be this push by the party of abortion and damnable lies to suck well-intentioned but naive Christians into its political orbit in order to consolidate its political power. These “progressive evangelicals” will soon find themselves next to black Democrats, you give the party your vote and are led to water, but you aren’t allowed to drink because the hard-core liberal seculars will continue running the show … thankyouverymuch for your vote, now got sit in a corner and we’ll trot you out when we need you for a poster child moment.

  • 59 mig // Dec 3, 2006 at 10:45 pm

    Miss Beatrice, the church organist, was in her eighties. She was admired
    for her sweetness and kindness to all. One afternoon the pastor came to
    call on her and she showed him into her quaint sitting room. She invited him
    to have a seat while she prepared tea.

    As he sat facing her old Hammond organ, the young minister noticed a
    cut-glass bowl sitting on top of it. The bowl was filled with water, and
    in the water floated, of all things, a condom!

    When she returned with tea and scones, they began to chat.

    The pastor tried to stifle hi s curiosity about the bowl of water and its
    strange floater, but soon it got the better of him and he could no
    longer resist.

    “Miss Beatrice”, he said, “I wonder if you would tell me about this?” pointing to the bowl.

    “Oh, yes,” she replied, “Isn’t it wonderful? I was walking through the Park a few months ago and I found this little package on the ground.

    The directions said to place it on the organ, keep it wet and that it would prevent the spread of disease. Do you know I haven’t had the flu all winter?”

  • 60 Godfrey // Dec 3, 2006 at 10:58 pm

    CAT: congrats! I used to be the perennial runner up in the Longest Post category (second only to Hank). I think I’ve just been bumped to a distant third. :-)

    I haven’t read Warren’s work personally, but I’ve been following it with interest for some time. According to many noted experts Warren’s “work” is underpinned by spectacularly bad theology.

    A pastor-turned-atheist named Robert Price wrote a book called The Reason Driven Life in which he points out a number of head-scratchers.

    A second book, written by a veteran pastor with a master’s degree in theology does much the same in this book (I recommend you read some of the comments by people who have read it-very enlightening). Also see this book.

    It’s interesting to note that Warren’s book is the second-best nonfiction bestseller of all time. This is one incredibly wealthy man.

  • 61 conserve-a-tips // Dec 3, 2006 at 11:43 pm

    Godfrey, back in the late 80’s or early 90’s (I can’t remember exactly) I turned on the television one day and caught the end of a show headed up by an evangelical minister named Robert Tilton. Just the few minutes that I saw him made my skin crawl and the hair stand on the back of my neck. It was his eyes. There was this look that just cut me in my heart and I felt like I was looking at evil. He has since been caught in every kind of fraud and I am not sure that he is still preaching..he may be, but he fell from his perch thank goodness. But while he was at his peak, he took in a vast amount of people. The reason? Because people want quick and easy answers to difficult questions and having an abiding trust in God is not one of the answers that they want. They would rather have a man to emulate rather than God. Rick Warren’s book fits right in with all of the psycho mumbo jumbo that is so popular today. It puts our healing in our hands and gives us control. Christianity is about giving God control and stepping out of the way. That is too hard for many people. I will check out your links.

    BTW, I saw the video of Warren on Hannity and Combes here and was amazed at how good Warren is. He sounds so logical and so caring and so informed and even said some of what I said above. But his little STOP acronym left out one major component..the greatest one…GOD. It makes my spirit groan.

  • 62 jmunk1 // Dec 4, 2006 at 3:39 am

    RE: #32
    >>Rick Warren is nobody to me.
    Not sure what your point is.

    >>He’s just another capitalist looking
    >>to enhance his fortunes
    When I made a specific comparison (content of posts to behavior of pharisees) and gave the precise area I was comparing (elitism) you mistakenly called that argument ad homenim… I think right there above is a much more clear example of this fallacy..

    >>by holding hands with whoever will further >>that goal–
    Not accurate. Saddleback does not endorse everything anyone might say. Also, you are arguing under a false assumption of the goal of the conference.

    >>in this case, Barack Hussein Obama, a
    >>“token” with no credentials whatsoever.
    You’re entitled to your opinion

    >> As for Warren’s campaign against AIDS, >>I liken it to the cigarette manufacturers
    >>and their anti-smoking promotions–all
    >>show, with the primary motive of
    >>enhancing profits.
    Not accurate. Saddleback does not profit.

    >>Any “pastor” who will align himself with
    >>(and lend credence to) a promoter of
    >>infanticide is highly suspect, in my
    Pastor Rick does fill the premise, making the conclusion moot.

  • 63 jmunk1 // Dec 4, 2006 at 4:39 am

    RE: ~51

    I read your post in detail. There are many false assumptions about Pastor Rick (control addict, doesn’t teach full scripture, misuses God’s Word, …). I’ll try to respond concisely, a-la Eph 6:11.

    First I believe the tone of the post is in lock step of how the Pharisees spoke. You condemn the man without knowing the facts and operating under false assumptions.

    “Does our law condemn anyone without first hearing him to find out what he is doing?” John 7:51 (NIV)

    I invite you to take a step back and look at all of the conclusions you drew from a single sound bite, single out of context quote, or a single guest at a conference.

    Next, please look at the two verses I felt compelled to offer in my initial post.

    I would like to thank you for demonstrating in all of God’s glory the amazing truth of His word.

    Here’s another one I think is particularly relevant. “Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.” 1 Peter 2:17 (NIV)

    God bless you

  • 64 conserve-a-tips // Dec 4, 2006 at 8:50 am

    Thank you for your response.

    First, I caution you that it seems to be the “Seeker Sensitive” way to charge that anyone who questions or brings fallacies to light is being “like the Pharisees.” That sounds very learned and above the issue, but in fact, it is the typical type of response used by “control” addicts - rather then deal with the issue, control the situation by putting the questioner in the roll of a heartless law follower. I find it interesting that you then quote a scripture (John 7:51) that uses the Mosaic Law to make a point.

    Second, when one publishes a book or two books or however many and touts them as one’s view of scripture and of God, then any reader may take what is written in those books as “the gospel according to the author” and make an assessment accordingly. For you to claim that I do not know the facts, that I operate under false assumptions and that my tone is in lockstep with the Pharisees, again, shows that your argument is based solely on an emotional level without really reading my post. The fact is, I have read the books. I have done the 40 Days of Purpose and I have heard Rick Warren speak and I can tell you that his message is dangerous.

    Your devotion to him is admirable, but having been involved in several church ministries, I also caution you to direct that devotion totally to the Lord and to His Word by studying and letting God use you where ever he may, and realize that Rick Warren is just a man like you and me - fallible just like you and me. If he is truly a pastor, then his job, as a teaching elder, is not to save the world, but to teach, exhort and edify those in his church in order that they may go out and spread the message and minister to the world while letting God do the saving. Unfortunately, many people who think that they or others are “working for the Lord” forget that they are just vessels and God is really doing the work. It is like a water pitcher saying to the cups, “See all of the water that I have been pouring out into you?” How foolish and self-centered we human beings can become. In all of the times that I have heard Mr. Warren speak or preach, including his time on Hannity & Combes, a time that was ripe for giving God the glory, I have not heard him once say that God is the author of the ministry or the results. I have heard, “I” “I” “I”. I encourage you to listen with your spirit, instead of with your admiration.
    May the Spirit bring to you all of the wisdom and discernment that is needed in these troubling times.

  • 65 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 9:42 am

    Godfrey, here’s an essay I was recently made aware of that you might find challenging if not interesting - The Psychology of Atheism.

    A review can be found here and it is excerpted here.

    Professor Dr. Paul Vitz is a former atheist.

  • 66 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 9:53 am

    jmunk, you totally discredit your own self and arguments by immediately making generalizations that all of us here are “Pharisees”. You are guilty of the very thing you accuse us of and once again engage in the pathetic rhetorical device of using terms like “Pharisees” to try and end debate on this issue - just as leftists love to portray conservative Christians as “Nazis”. Neither of which is true I might add.

    I suggest you heal yourself of your own deep-seated hatreds before coming here to spew your venom on a parody site. You are guilty of bearing false witness against us to advance a political agenda which is at best highly questionable.

    Despite spewing your ugly hatreds here, has anyone here likened you to a tool of Lucifer or a follower of the Sadducees? In that regard we have been far more civilized than you. Let Pastor Warren fight his own battles or at least justify himself, he doesn’t need self-appointed holy spirits such as yourself casting ad hominem aspersions with such broad brushstrokes of personal animus.

  • 67 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 9:55 am

    …Rumsfeld stole my post.

  • 68 bystander // Dec 4, 2006 at 10:05 am

    “Why does everyone seem to think it is their mission in life to shove their favored version of religious beliefs down everyone else’s throats ?

    Like your beliefs don’t have some kind of religious taint to it? And you’ve tried your best to cram them down our throats, bystander.”

    I just state what I think Darth. I don’t emulate you by throwing a bucket of bilious insults at those who do not think as I do.

  • 69 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 10:57 am

    You just hate it when people defend themselves against your own warped sense of reality, don’t you bystander? Scrapplers deconstruct your own naiveté and you insult them by saying they’re trying to “cram” things down your throat. Go spew your kool-aid somewhere else if you’re going to take that kind of arrogant, self-justifying attitude. You’re a real victim, aren’t you?

  • 70 jmunk1 // Dec 4, 2006 at 1:25 pm

    64~ The responses to my posts have demonstrated my points in spades.

    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
    Matthew 7:2-5 (ESV).

    Praise the Lord

  • 71 jmunk1 // Dec 4, 2006 at 1:27 pm

    64~ The responses to my posts have demonstrated my points in spades.

    “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
    Matthew 7:2-5 (ESV).

    Praise the Lord

  • 72 bystander // Dec 4, 2006 at 7:30 pm

    “Go spew your kool-aid somewhere else if you’re going to take that kind of arrogant, self-justifying attitude. You’re a real victim, aren’t you?”

    You certainly like to prove a point in spades eh Darth ?

  • 73 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 7:39 pm

    jmunk, you forget one important point, it was you who first came here to judge us as “Pharisees”. It is you with the log in your eye. This wasn’t your “fight”, we didn’t insult you. It is you who should remove the log from your eye making direct assaults upon us when we’ve done nothing to you. You almost like Mr. Warren is your personal savior or something. He’s just a man and we’ve done nothing to warrant you making it your personal mission to come here and misappropriate Scripture for your own personal vendetta.

    If Mr. Warren has a problem with the way we are treating his position on condoms ON A PARODY SITE, then he can come here himself to express his outrage.

    Are you his official spokesperson or something? I assume Mr. Warren is a big enough man to take care of himself and his personal agenda and if we have somehow besmirched his fine reputation, then he can post here himself.

    BTW, where have we sinned against YOU, particularly since you were the initial aggressor. Do you realize that if you exercised the same attitude toward “peace-loving” Muslims they could have you beheaded? We’ve exercise great restraint toward you and your smarmy self-righteousness given how out-of-the-blocks you characterized us as “Pharisees”. Physician, heal thyself!

  • 74 Darthmeister // Dec 4, 2006 at 8:18 pm

    bystander, do you ever have an honest, original thought or do you fear it would increase your exposure to criticism if you do? I assume you do fear that since that’s all you do here, be little more than a holier-than-thou troll as you rope-a-dope your way through another post. You really do think yourself far more informed and better than us, don’t you?

    I mean, everything that comes off your keyboard is so pre-processed and artificial. Where’s the passion, where’s the real manhood/womanhood/ithood willing to put it all on the line on issues dear to you? With you it’s like trying to watch 200 channels of cable through an old B&W Magnavox television set. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

  • 75 woodnwheel // Dec 4, 2006 at 8:21 pm

    I have just one thing to say: Scott, this is gold! :-D

  • 76 conserve-a-tips // Dec 4, 2006 at 9:15 pm

    It appears that you are the one having the habit of taking scripture out of context. Read the entire passage to what you have quoted and then read on into the writings of Paul and you will find -

    1 Corintinians 5:9-13 regarding judging in the church:
    I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. And so, if Obama calls himself a brother - a believer - then we are to have nothing to do with him because he advocates the abhorrent practice of killing babies as they are being delivered. You can’t get any more sexually immoral then that.

    But! On the other hand if he does not claim to be a believer:
    II Corinthians 6:14-17
    Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate,” says the Lord. Are you and Rick Warren and the rest of the membership willing to admit that alligning yourself with such a man is not in the best interest of the body of believers or the individual believers?

    And finally, we have every right to question the actions, teachings and practices of Mr. Warren because he has aspired to a position of authority and teaching and we are admonished:
    James 3:1
    “Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.”

    Again, I encourage you to surround yourself in the scripture and ask the Holy Spirit for discernment in all matters instead of drinking the Kool-Aid of the many preachers who have been tantalized by the chance to “leave a legacy” out there.

    Remember, Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets [teachers] have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1
    “Test everything. Hold onto the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

  • 77 egospeak // Dec 5, 2006 at 7:35 am

    Anchor: And now with a commentary, Miss Emily Letella.

    Miss E T: What’s all this talk I’m hearing about the Porpoise Driven Life??? I may be old but I’m not Miss Daisy!!! And I don’t want to be driven around by Flipper!!! Besides, how is he going to steer the car, with his flippers??!!! And who is going to teach him how to drive anyway?!! What are we going to do, send driving instructors into the ocean in scuba outfits???!!! Are we going to move the Motor Vehicle Administration out to sea??? The whole idea is ridiculous!!! I…..

    Anchor: It’s purpose, not porpoise.

    Miss E T: What…what?

    Anchor: It’s The Purpose Driven Life, not The Porpoise Driven Life.

    Miss E T: Ohh, well that’s very different.

    Anchor: Yes it is.

    Miss E T: … Nevermind.

  • 78 bystander // Dec 5, 2006 at 8:51 am

    Why do you have this innate need to insult those with whom you do not agree Darth ?

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